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It's not the top round in the mag that gets the smiley... it's the second.
At least with mine it was...
Flyer
Blackhawk,
It's not the top round in the mag that gets the smiley... it's the second.
At least with mine it was...
Flyer
That's a surprise!Originally Posted by Flyer
I thought that the top round (meaning the top one in the mag at the time) always got it, so it would be the second round when the mag is first inserted in the well. Then racking to load the chamber would make the former 2nd round the top round, and it's the one that got the smiley.
The 2nd round in my mag has 80% or so of its nose covered by the front wall of the mag.
Color me confused!
1) load mag and manually rack to feed the first round.
2) Fire the first round.
3) Eject mag and currently chambered round and inspect each.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven... Oswald was a fag. - McManus
Nolan Web Development
Guitars and Synths.com
Is this correct?
4) The currently chambered round will have a smiley.
No... I haven't tried it myself (not for lack of desire) but that's how I read what's been reported.Is this correct?
4) The currently chambered round will have a smiley.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven... Oswald was a fag. - McManus
Nolan Web Development
Guitars and Synths.com
Blackhawk,
The chambered round may or may not have a smiley, but the one now on top in the mag almost certainly will!
Flyer
Flyer,
It's got to be the top round in the mag getting hit in my P3AT when the slide, and barrel, are moving back. And it's the top round that is the next one being chambered. There are no smileys on the top round in my mag after firing, only the one that is in the chamber. It was the top round just before getting chambered.
I wondered about that too, but put on your logic hat and review the sequence. If the ramp mod was the only thing that mattered then my smileys should have gone away with the first try. If it was the second round getting hit, and not the top one, why do I have a smiley on the chambered round after firing the first round that was chambered by hand? Are we all having a different event here?
Blackhawk,
I just took my dremel tool with small emery tip and roughened the top inside of my magazine to get the slippery bluing off. Just the back part where the rim of the top round slides forward. The bluing is too hard for just sandpaper on a stick to touch it. Cleaned it out good and now the rounds have some resistance to moving out. I'll try to test this out at the range this week.
The mystery thickens.
og
Older Than Dirt and Dumber Than A Geico CaveMan
Do smiley's contribute to double feeds? or is it a grip or lack their of problem?
I just bought a second P3AT (first one is visiting Florida for hard chrome and some repairs) sn H2LXX. I wanted to do the complete F&B, ramp mod, etc. on this one to make sure I got it right.
Looking at the info for testing the amount needed to remove for the ramp mod; ie.
"Use your P-3AT with the slide off but with the assembly pin reinserted to help out here. Put some snap-caps or, carefully, live rounds in the mag and seat fully. As you progress, fit your barrel lug down onto the assembly pin and push to the rear, allowing the barrel to cam down. You’ll see how you’re coming, as gradually the cutout takes shape. Finally, you should be able to pull the barrel fully rearward, and have the ramp just clear the bullet nose."
There is already a good gap between the rounds and the ramp. The attached picture shows how I set up the pistol (removed recoil spring, reinstalled slide and barrel with assembly pin), loaded FMJ reload, loaded Winchester white box FMJ, and loaded a Corbin. I can't see where I need to remove metal from the ramp. What am I missing?
The sequence of events seems to have to be:
1. Insert mag with pristine rounds (number them as originally in mag)
2. Rack to load the chamber with #1, all rounds still pristine.
3. Fire once
4. Eject #1 casing
5. Load #2
Between event 3 & 4, the slide moves back carrying the barrel. Apparently the lower chamber edge smacks the nose of #2 leaving a smiley as shown in the lower left photo originally posted by Gnemesis (I think). That photo clearly shows an imprint the exact shape of the bottom of the chamber. Speculation has been that the imprint gets made because that area of the barrel overhangs the magazine well too far thus allowing it to strike #2. However, OG suggested that the recoil impulse has caused #2 to move forward due to inertia effectively making #2's nose intrude into the barrel's path. That would mean that the Flyer Fix to the barrel would have to be extreme to prevent the collision.
Round #3 cannot get a smiley because until #2 is loaded, #3 is deep enough into the mag that the front mag wall protects it from any collision with the barrel. Furthermore, as #2 is being chambered, it prevents #3 from rising to be in close proximity to the barrel even if #2 is dragging it forward, which brings up a corollary to OG's theory.
When #2 is being stripped by the returning slide, it's dragging on the mag lips PLUS on the casing of #3 causing it to move forward. This can be demonstrated very easily. Load a mag, and make sure that all rounds are fully at the back of the mag. Strip the top round by hand. On my mag, the next round is always carried forward, sometimes as much as 1/8". That means that it's NOT necessary for the recoil impulse to move the "top" round forward because it was already moved forward from the previous round being stripped. The round fails the "strait edge" test, and it is definitely in the path of the barrel.
IMO, the relieving of the bottom of the chamber by filing part of it away will not fix the problem entirely although it will certainly help. The design solution is to lower the feed ramp (make a new barrel with a "taller" feed ramp) so that the top round cannot make perpendicular contact with any part of it. Another fix may be redesigning the cam fo the barrel tilts up more when the slide's unlocked the breech.
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