Trust P3AT to stop?

[martinct]

I have a P11 and really trust that but recently purchases a P3AT for easier carry and to stay in my car. While I have no trust issues with my P11 firing and stopping power, I'm nervous with the literature I've read about .380s. Would you trust it to stop an attack or do you feel it will just aggravate an intruder and give them time to pull out a weapon? If you do trust it, what type of round do you prefer.

Thanks and glad to be part of the Kel Tec family!

[mrchuck]

With hot hollow points and placement, absolutely!!
At long range, the .380 loses it's punch, but at closer ranges around a car or home, it will kill effectively.

[martinct]

That's relieving to hear. I don't plan on hitting anything outside of 10 yds in any case. From some of your previous posts, I noticed you are a retired LEO (I think). So your assessment holds a lot of weight.

[magman454]

...Would you trust it to stop an attack or do you feel it will just aggravate an intruder and give them time to pull out a weapon? If you do trust it, what type of round do you prefer.

Thanks and glad to be part of the Kel Tec family!

I trust mine with my life daily. If I didn't trust it, I wouldn't carry it. Modern .380 defensive ammo is not much less potent than standard pressure .38 SP.

While I don't recommend shooting without hearing protection unless absolutely necessary, I did fire one round from my P-3AT without protection once. I just wanted to see how it would sound if I ever had to pull and use it. To say it was loud is an understatement, and that was outside. Trust me; If you ever have to fire it at someone, they are going to think it is a much larger gun. If they are not immobilized, they are more than likely going to do all in their power to vacate the premises ASAP.

All that being said, I usually carry a .45 1911 as a primary and the P-3AT as a back-up when I leave the house. My PLR-16 with 31 rounds of Black Hills .223 loaded with the 50 gr Barnes Varmint Grenades and my newly acquired 870 with 5 round of #6 shot are my primary home defense guns, but my P-3AT is in my watch pocket right now. Always is.

At the moment, mine is loaded with Hornady Critical Defense ammo, but any good hollow point that cycles reliably will do.

I just noticed that you're in Indiana. Hollow points could become plugged by thick jackets, rendering them only as effective as FMJ, in most cases. Just remember; Shoot to stop, and don't stop shooting until the threat is neutralized.

[Stogies]

As others have said, with a good defensive ammo it should be enough. Certainly not more than you would want but workable.

[Axeman]

I handloaded a couple dozen .380s with 60 grain Gold Dot HP bullets and 3.7 grains of W231 a few weeks ago thinking the GD bullets would expand nicely at 1035 fps that Speer claims for that load in their loading data sheet that came with the bullets. I was wrong, not one GD expanded at all in any medium I fired into, including water filled gallon milk jugs, bundles of water soaked rags, and 20" of water in a drum. Penetration was very good but what I was hoping for was expansion and it just didn't happen. The recovered bullets were is such good condition that I could have reloaded them and fired them again.

I have ruled out Gold Dot factory loads for my carry ammo, and when I get some more mad money to spend on guns and ammo without causing a domestic disturbance I want to order some other HP bullets to try out. I would like to try Winchester Silvertips, but apparently Winchester doesn't sell the .380 Silvertip bullets by themselves so I have to buy expensive factory .380 ammo if I want to try it out. I am reluctant to carry Hydroshoks because factory loaded .380 Hydroshoks were the first ammo I used to break in my P3AT, and I had 2 stovepipe jams with the first magazine. After that first magazine the rest of the Hydroshoks performed perfectly, but I still have doubts about them. I want to find a good HP ammo that will function with 100% reliability, and that search may turn out to be expensive if I have to buy 2 or 3 boxes of factory ammo @ $25 or more per box until I find one that works. By the way, I have fired well over 200 rounds of handloads topped with cast lead round nose and swaged lead semiwadcutter bullets with no malfunctions of any kind. If I can't find a 100% reliable factory round I may just carry it loaded with the lead semiwadcutters I handload. I would like to find factory ammo that would expand reliably, but if it isn't 100& reliable I won't carry it for self defense and flat nose SWC bullets are the next best thing to HPs.

[banana380]

60 gr. seems quite small for a .380... Maybe that's part of the problem.

All expansion tests I've done (Speer gold dot, Hornady critical defense, Remington golden sabers) have expanded just fine. I alter all 3 in my mag.

[Axeman]

[QUOTE=banana380;91799]60 gr. seems quite small for a .380... Maybe that's part of the problem.

No, my lousy brain and it's worn out memory cells are the problem with that screwed up post. In the first paragraph my brain somehow transferred my recent expansion tests with .32 Gold Dot bullets for my wife's little Model 30 S&W .32 Long revolver to my plan for finding a more effective carry round for my P3AT. Don't ask me how that weird cerebral malfunction could happen, I guess it's just shows how quickly an old man's brain can dry up and blow away.

I do want to find an effective cartridge for her .32 Long revolver, but I also gave my plan for the Keltec in the 2nd paragraph. And that plan is to try out as many .380 HP bullets and/or factory loaded HP cartridges as I can find and buy without blowing a year's worth of money reserved for ammo and reloading components. After that I'll choose either the handload or factory ammo that works best with my Keltec. If none of the ammo I try performs to my satisfaction I'll stick with my handloaded .380 ammo using Dardas' 98 grain soft lead flat nose bullets over a near-maximum load of propellant such as W231 or Unique. I have fired close to 200 rounds of ammo I hand loaded with those components without a single malfunction of any kind, and a 98 gr .356" flat nose lead slug traveling at approximately 900 fps isn't anything to be taken lightly.

[magman454]

...I am reluctant to carry Hydroshoks because factory loaded .380 Hydroshoks were the first ammo I used to break in my P3AT, and I had 2 stovepipe jams with the first magazine. After that first magazine the rest of the Hydroshoks performed perfectly, but I still have doubts about them...

I may be reading this wrong, but if you meant that you had two stovepipes in the very first magazine ever fired through the gun, with no problems afterwards, I would not hold the ammo at fault. While breaking in a semi-automatic firearm, a few jams are to be expected. I wouldn't hold any ammo at fault until at least 200 rounds have been put through the piece.

[mrchuck]

Just about all .380 kill shots that I have seen are multiple shots at less than 6 feet. I never investigated a 1 shot victim, except for a suicide.
I personally like the Cor-Bon or Black Talon ammo.

The .380 is a very good belly or chest defensive cartridge within those parameters.
Women especially like it due to their hand size, and is very difficult to remove from their hands if you have to dis-arm one without using pressure or wrist lock techniques, which leave dis-coloring bruises..

If you buy this caliber, only to try and just wound someone,"or just wing him",,, you shouldn't even be on this forum.