The Kel-Tec Range

oldgranpa · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: The Last Crusade

The Last Crusade

This completes wetpack testing for the KelTec P3AT pistol that I started several years ago with the 1st gen AT. After 3 tests with the 1st gen and now 2 tests with the 2d gen, I have enough data to do a statistical analysis for a few of the more popular rounds.
Gelatin addicts demand a statistical report with their tests. Sometimes I'm amazed how they can get a statistic with only 1 data point, which is really all they get with a block of gelatin. The wetpack allows several shots in the same pack and with different ammo and different handguns, as the picture below shows for this test. Interesting is how the different barrel lengths respond to different brands of ammo. The Winchester Silvertip, for instance, expands too much with a long barrel and gets no more penetration than the short barrel. While the Hornady XTP doesn't develop enough velocity to expand well in a short barrel it penetrates well in the P3AT and expands and penetrates very well in longer barrel pistols. The Rem GS 102gr also seems to be a good all around choice.
A few statistics follow for the P3AT: (wetpack penetration is approx 2/3 gelatin)
Win ST, 13 tests, 6.6penet, mean, SD .88 and .520exp, mean, SD .025 equiv gel 9.9"
Rem GS, 8 tests, 7.56penet, mean, SD .85 and .574exp, mean, SD .014 equiv gel 11.34"
Speer GD, 6 tests, 6.8penet, mean, SD .37 and .463exp, mean, SD .029 equiv gel 10.2"
Fed HS, 5 tests, 7.8penet, mean, SD .4 and .479exp, mean, SD .002 equiv gel 11.7"

You should draw your own conclusions from these tests remembering the wetpack is a certified KTRange test whether the gelatin guys like it or not. Oh, BTW, a wetpack can be "calibrated", not by using a stupid BB, but by shooting 2 Speer GoldDot 135gr+p 38special rounds into the pack using a snub nose J-Frame . If they go 9" or more and expand over 1/2", then it's a good wetpack. That's how I do it and that's what I did and got on this one.

Note: Two FMJ rounds with the Sig P232 went 9+" and thru 3/4" plywood backing. The Hornady rounds stopped at the plywood with the Sig pistol. One Bersa FMJ went thru the plywood.

og.......off to other things, last wetpack test here.

Bob O. · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks - great info as usual! Very Happy

marshall

Off to get some GS's next week! Thanks for the great research!

norfdet · Guest

OG outstanding as usual. It reaffirms my choice of 102gr GS as my carry round. I also like the Speer Gold Dot as a second choice. I am sure that Midi or Flyer will post this on the opening page as usual.

Thanks again for EVERYTHING that you do for the Range.

moparman · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject:

Great info for us KT newbies. Thanks very much. Cool

steve · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:00 am Post subject:

thanks for taking your time to help us all.

Flyer · Senior Member Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 6053

As usual oldgranpa you've outdone yourself!
Wonderful stuff! Cool

Flyer

BuckeyeRy · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:34 am Post subject:

Thanks, OG. This is a lot of legwork for the benefit of the rest of us. It is much appreciated!

tedmug · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject:

OG I know this may sound patronizing, but it is truly not. That is an impressive bit of work. You have my attention. And I want to try some of those bullets that look like deranged mushrooms. They look as if they might do some damage.

oldgranpa · Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: damage

hi, tedmug,
thanks for your reply and fine words. Yes, any of those JHP rounds with the P3AT will do some real "hurt" with a lot of "bleeding".
The problem is, penetration has to reach some vital organs to produce a "stop". At least that's what the FBI and other gelatin test addicts insist on. The standard FBI number is 12" min. penetration in calibrated gelatin. There are arguments by some law enforcement agencies, like the border patrol, that says 9" is adequate (based on a frontal shot to a normal sized person that measures about 9" thru the torso). FBI wants 12" to allow for angled shots that may pass thru an arm first.
The wetpack gives less penetration than gelatin, about 2/3.
So we multiply by 3 and divide by 2 to get an approx. equivalent gelatin penetration. You'll note all the bullets get 9" equivalent gelatin by this method.
Is that good enough?? I can't know that and hope I never have to find out in a real self defense shooting. Personally, I would chose ammo closer to the 12" equivalent, even if the "mushroom" isn't quite as big.

good luck with whatever you decide to try.

og

jocko · Member Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 143 Location: indiana

pigbike · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject:

Take head shots and don't worry about the 12" rule.

oldgranpa · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: head shots

agreed!! as a last resort self defence, aim for the head, face, neck for maximum results. But, and this is a big "BUT", only at close range. Anything over about 3 yds. is difficult for a head shot.
The subject has been reviewed extensively at many sites on the internet. Here is just one typical comment by a highly experienced LEO and author..

quote:
"While I am certainly not opposed to headshots (as a failure to stop remedy), it should be noted that there is a lot more of the head which is ineffective as a handgun target than there is that is effective.

It is the occular window we must hit for sure results (in Miami, Matix was hit in the temple from 90 degreess without serious effect and we had a deputy who failed to stop a woman with a hit from a 4" .357 magnum to the face).

Hard to hit under stress - sure is. "
end quote.

lots of practice needed for that.

og